How Common is it to have the D lever (E lowers) on the RKL?

Gary Dunn · Post by **Gary Dunn** » 28 Sep 2025 3:15 pm

to have the D lever (E lowers) on the RKL?

David Farrell · Post by **David Farrell** » 28 Sep 2025 3:17 pm

I believe it's fairly common. I think that's the 'Sho~Bud' set up.

Pat Dixon · Post by **Pat Dixon** » 28 Sep 2025 4:28 pm

No, RKL should raise. Please see the attachment. I'm sorry I don't know the answer to your question.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 28 Sep 2025 4:40 pm

Yes, it's very common. In certain areas, it's the boss over LKR. Like David said, it is often referred to like that. You'll find many players here who set up their guitars that way.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 28 Sep 2025 7:28 pm

On Jeff Newman's 12S Universal tuning, RKL is the E to F raise, The RKR is the E to D lower.
The reason for this set up is, It allows the weight of your upper leg to help hold the D lower in. With less mussel use, For longer periods of playing in B6th Tuning.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 29 Sep 2025 8:02 am

Paul Franklin lowers E on RKL, there's and interesting discussion on the merits between him and Buddy Emmons in this old thread starting about halfway down page 2: viewtopic.php?t=29594

Stew Crookes · Post by **Stew Crookes** » 29 Sep 2025 9:06 am

That's how my guitars are - I'm used to it

John Sluszny · Post by **John Sluszny** » 29 Sep 2025 9:19 am

Bobby D. Jones wrote: 28 Sep 2025 7:28 pm On Jeff Newman's 12S Universal tuning, RKL is the E to F raise, The RKR is the E to D lower.
The reason for this set up is, It allows the weight of your upper leg to help hold the D lower in. With less mussel use, For longer periods of playing in B6th Tuning.

I think Jeff Newman could easily play any configuration. Single 10, D10, ABC, CBA, S12 U, E's on the left, E's on the right etc... But that was Jeff Newman!!!

Tommy Mc · Post by **Tommy Mc** » 29 Sep 2025 5:04 pm

It would be interesting to take a poll. My guess would be within spitting distance of 25% lowering E's on RKL. I have the change on RKL, mainly because that's where it was on my first steel, and old habits are hard to break. I did try moving it to LKR once, but couldn't get used to it.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 29 Sep 2025 7:04 pm

When I went to S12U in 2017, I had played Day setup. LKL lower E's, LKR raise E's for about 25 years. I changed to RKL raise E's, RKR lower E's. It only took about a week, I started slow having to remember KL changes. Till I got the moves into my Nero Memory, To act without thinking.

It took me about a month and a lot of slow work to go from the 10B-8E-6G# grip to 9B-8E-6G# grip on the S12U tuning.

Dennis Montgomery · Post by **Dennis Montgomery** » 29 Sep 2025 7:58 pm

That's the way I do it. Started out with both E raise & lower on LK but changed it early on while I was learning (though I don't remember exactly why) but have split the E's ever since

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 29 Sep 2025 8:11 pm

Re: How Common is it...

Post by Tommy Mc » Mon Sep 29, 2025 9:04 pm
It would be interesting to take a poll.

...good idea. Why don't you start one. I'd like to know too. I think we did one a long time back but it can't be found plus it probably needs to be updated to current player options.

Gary Dunn · Post by **Gary Dunn** » 30 Sep 2025 3:37 pm

I just read the thread that has been referenced, and found it to be a spirited exchange of ideas and opinions. I will have to read it again to digest it completely.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 30 Sep 2025 9:26 pm

It seems a lot depends on the area that a guitar is/was set up and played in.
It seems that a player in an area, That sells and works on steels, Will set the guitar up so he can play and demonstrate it. Someone buys a steel to learn on, And play, Will have the sellers pedal and knee lever set up.

The player I bought my first steel from. If he had a long show night. I could set in on his guitar, And fill for him, To take a brake. Now that I play a S12U. That would be a train wreck ready to happen.

Jim Cooley · Post by **Jim Cooley** » 1 Oct 2025 9:37 am

It is very common. It all depends on how it works with the rest of your copedent and what you're comfortable with.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 1 Oct 2025 9:54 am

have always thought that when E changes were on the right knee lever, it was standard to have RKR lower 1/2, and RKL to raise 1/2.. I have stated it here often. MSA was the biggest manufacturer when the came out with the Classic series guitars in the 70's.. They sold thousands and thousands, and I could be mistaken, but I thought at one point they sold more than all the other builders combined.. I could be wrong about that nut I seem to recall seeing it here at some point.. Anyway, all those thousands of MSA guitars were shipped with E lowers on the right, unless it was a special order.. However, MSA was selling most of their steels "over the counter" at retailers, unlike many of the others.. If you see an MSA Classic today[there are a LOT still out there!], and it has E's on the left, it was changed at some point.. I always thought the E changes on the right were more natural and ergonomic, and so did Maurice Anderson I would imagine.. Thats the way he shipped his guitars... bob

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 1 Oct 2025 10:56 am

My mid- to late- '70s Sho-Bud Pro-1 (3 x 2) came set up from the factory with the RKL lowering the Es (and the RKR lowering the 2nd string from Eb to D).

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 1 Oct 2025 2:45 pm

The Sho-Bud S10 and the MSA U12 I ordered new (mid-late '70s) came with the E lowers on RKL.
I feel it makes more ergonomic sense to have that change on RKL when keeping it lowered to play B6.
(My RKR lever lowered string 2 a half/whole step; from the factory.)

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 1 Oct 2025 6:19 pm

Someone asked about a poll on this - here's one from 2009 and onward - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1408072 - there's quite a bit of discussion about this choice there. I said about everything about this, from my perspective, that I could there. I tried a bunch of things and eventually wound up with Emmons setup, E-raises on LKL and E-lowers on RKL. YMMV.

If you do a search for E lowers on RKL, you'll find a lot of prior discussion on this topic. This thread - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29594 - was already pointed out. In my mind, this thread is the definitive discussion, with two of the finest minds in the pedal steel guitar world explaining in detail their reasoning for choosing LKR and RKL, respectively. I strongly suggest every pedal steel player should carefully read this thread and perhaps explore the many previous discussions on this topic. I personally think it's pretty important for players to get this choice right for them - and there is no absolute 'correct' choice, as the interchange between Buddy and Paul clearly shows.

BTW - that poll showed the following for E-lower choices:

LKL: 27 responses or 8%
LKR: 169 responses or 49%
RKL: 117 responses or 34%
RKR: 31 responses or 9%

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 1 Oct 2025 7:31 pm

Are you talking about E lowers to Eb on strings 4 and 8? OR E lowering to D to get a b7th?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 2 Oct 2025 2:30 pm

I used to use the RKL for my E lowers and I play Day setup. I used the LKL to raise 1 and lower 6th. I liked it fine but all the Day setup guys around here that sat in on my guitar used to gripe about it so I changed it. I believe Sara Jory still uses that setup.

Michael Whitmire · Post by **Michael Whitmire** » 2 Oct 2025 3:08 pm

Previous Left knee for all E changes guy here. I split my Es to be raise on LKL and lower on RKL a few months back.

You lose some things you could do by keeping the Es on one knee. Like I can no longer play 9 string rooted dominant chords with 9 7 5 6. And there’s some other minor things that are no longer easily accessed but nothing major is really lost. A lot of it, in a band setting, still works by just omitting some notes.

Best thing so far for me is comfort with splitting the knees. I can lean heavily at times into playing dominant chords with B and E and rocking on and off A. Along with some cool things you can do easier by swapping between the E raise and E lower.

From doing both setups though, it’s what works best for each player. I’ll be keeping my Es split from now on!

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 2 Oct 2025 3:55 pm

My Sho~Bud Pro II had the E's lower on the RL. Since they are not played at the same time, it makes sense to have them on the same knee. This seems pretty obvious, but I wonder if not having to have a reversal mechanism for the RL played into the decision to have put it on the RL, especially since the Sho~Bud reversal mechanisms were pretty crude then.
( I've never used the 9th string D lower at all)

David Wisson · Post by **David Wisson** » 2 Oct 2025 11:22 pm

Hi All I have it on my Universal. RKl Ebs RKR Fs RKF Bb. Love it. Used to have both on Left knee on my Emmons. I play the Day set up because that was how my first pedal steel was set up. Now I'm retired. I intended to re make all six of my knee levers. It has Taken quite a long time to find the most comfortable playing positions for them. I made the rear appron future proof when I built the guitar. Lots of tapped mounting holes. Dave

Chuck Lemasters · Post by **Chuck Lemasters** » 3 Oct 2025 6:13 am

My first good guitar, a ShoBud, came with E lowers on RKL. The main advantage I see for raises and lowers to be on the same knee is that it seems to be more common these days, making it a bit awkward if you sit down to a guitar set up like that. I will stick to E-D# on RKL, too old to change now….

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