Tuning Issue with a Wound 6th String

[Corbin Pratt]

Hey all,

I recently decided to try a wound 6th on my steel. For some reason, I cannot get it in tune. The tension also feels a little off. If I tune the 6th string up the tune the pedal, then the open string goes sharp with the pedal. Any ideas on how to fix this? Or should I just void this idea?

Thanks!

[Lee Baucum]

Be sure to read the excellent article about Overtuning, written by Jon Light (RIP).

Quite helpful.

It's a "sticky" at the top of the Pedal Steel page.

~Lee

[Dave Grafe]

Hey all,

I recently decided to try a wound 6th on my steel. For some reason, I cannot get it in tune. The tension also feels a little off. If I tune the 6th string up the tune the pedal, then the open string goes sharp with the pedal. Any ideas on how to fix this? Or should I just void this idea?

Thanks!

Any particular reason not to use the unwound .022 on E9 string 6? Besides the issues you describe most all-pull changers are incapable of delivering a full step lower with a wound 6th string.

[Mathew Peluso]

I use a wound 6th on my Williams and it lowers a full step perfectly. The difference in tension with the wound 6th does require moving the pull rod in the bell crank though. Have you made that adjustment?

You’ll have to move ALL the 6th string pull rods up 2 positions in the bell crank (away from the cross shaft).

[Corbin Pratt]

Long story short, I have a Show Pro Russ Pahl model with the 25" scale. I've had it setup to play in standard but was wanting to experiment with tuning it to Eb since it was designed that way. All of the string worked just fine doing this except for the 6th string. I'm assuming because it was wound. I tried a 26w and a 24w but had the same result. I'm not against just going with a 24p if that will make the transition seamless.

[Corbin Pratt]

My sixth string does not lower, so that is not a concern.

[Mathew Peluso]

Even if it doesn’t lower you’ll need to adjust the position in the bell crank for the raise. Basically any change you have on string 6 the pull rod needs to move away from the cross shaft whether it’s a raise or lower.

[Bobby D. Jones]

It is a rule of physics that caught you.
The smaller the string is, Or the core of a wound string is, The farther it must be pulled to reach the proper note.
A .020 Plain string. Compared to a .022 Wound makes a lot of difference.
A wound .022 only has about a .011-.012 string core with about .005 winding X 2 =.022.
Check the 3rd and 6th string bell cranks. A good rule of thumb is put the 6th string pull, In the same hole on the bell crank, That the 3rd string pull is in the bell crank. This should put you close to proper pull/tuning.

Some people like .022 Wound for 6th string, For the tone. On some older guitars, You must use a .022 6th string so the 3rd & 6th strings pulls, Will reach note together.
The 6th string is why many steel players buy 6 or more sets of strings, At a time. So they do not have to fight Wound to Plain, Or Plain to Wound 6th string change.
Good Luck in this project, Happy Steelin.

[Dave Grafe]

I use a wound 6th on my Williams and it lowers a full step perfectly. The difference in tension with the wound 6th does require moving the pull rod in the bell crank though. Have you made that adjustment?

You’ll have to move ALL the 6th string pull rods up 2 positions in the bell crank (away from the cross shaft).

If you're asking me this question yes I have maxed the pulls on multiple guitars that could not manage it. On many marks the changer design will not allow the lower finger to travel far enough without picking up the raise finger. Some, including a Williams I recently overhauled, actually perform this task better using the middle lower hole than the top one. Same guitars all worked easy peasy with a solid .022 string, it's a leverage issue with the all-pull mechanism.

[Dave Mudgett]

As Bobby states - a 0.22 or 0.24 wound string has a much smaller core (the plain steel string around which the windings are wound) than a .020 or .022 plain steel string. The smaller the core of the string, the longer throw required to achieve the same pitch change, all other things being equal. So if you want to use a wound string in place of the 0.20 plain or 0.22 plain string on there now, you will need to adjust the mechanism for a longer throw.

There are a number of ways to do this. One is to adjust the pedal (or lever) so that it travels farther - most steels have an adjustment to accomplish this. Another is to change the leverage point on either the bellcrank or changer, or both - just choose a different hole. On the bellcrank, move the pull rod to a hole further away from the axle (i.e., away from the top of the guitar). On the changer, move to a hole closer to the changer axle. You may need to experiment a bit to figure out which hole(s) work best.

If you increase the travel at the pedal or lever, you'll have push the pedal or lever longer, but not harder. If you change the leverage(s) at the bellcrank and/or changer, you'll be pulling harder but not longer. You may want to try a bit of both - maybe a bit longer travel and a bit harder pull.

I sort of understand your rationale for wanting a wound string if you want to tune to Eb. Plenty of players use a wound 6th - it does sound different, and might improve tuning stability and especially cabinet drop some. I had a '73/73 Sho Bud model 6139 that absolutely required a wound 6th to avoid a ridiculous amount of cabinet drop. But I think most players use a plain 6th string. Personally, I go for a plain 6th because I'm hell bent to have the 6th string G#=>F# lower, which I find indispensible. That change can be achieved with a wound string on most guitars I've had, but I found the travel and/or tension too much. But maybe not if it's tune to Eb. Personally, if what's on there now is a 0.20 plain, I'd probably try a 0.22 plain and see if that helps. I've tried 0.24 plain strings and I think they sound pretty wonky.

One other possible suggestion. There are some makers that make "large core" wound strings. I know that GHS makes these "Big Core" and "Thick Core" strings - here's a link to their "Thick Core" Boomers - https://www.ghsstrings.com/products/220 ... re-boomers - and I'm pretty sure other makers do this also. Smallest wound I see is a 0.025 wound. I know I've used thick core strings for guitar sometimes, and they do feel like a somewhat higher tension string, for the string gauge, which is the direction you probably want to be moving in.

[Mathew Peluso]

Sorry for the confusion, Dave G. I was just stating that an adjustment to the pull rods was necessary when using a wound 6th while also commenting that the lower works on my guitar, and that question was directed at OP. I understand some changers won’t accommodate this. For what it’s worth the lower for my 6th has the pull rod at the second furthest slot on the bell crank from the cross shaft.

[Corbin Pratt]

Men - thanks for the wealth of knowledge on this topic. I really appreciate all of the responses. In the meantime, I threw on a .22p 6th string and it mitigated the issue and sounds pretty great. I may try the wound string again with moving the pull rods. Thank you all!

[Bobby D. Jones]

It is great you got your guitar back playable with the .022 solid string.
I there is a lower on the 6th string, And you would want to use a wound .022 string. Not only would the string need more travel, At the bell crank. But would need the Lower Return Spring adjusted, Or a lighter Lower Return Spring on the 6th string, To make the wound .022 perform properly.
Good Luck, Happy Steelin.

[Bobby D. Jones]

I was reading through this whole post. And seen where the guitar has a 25" scale. That adds another problem for a .022 wound 6th string working on this guitar.
Between the 25" scale, And if the guitar has a normal key head set up for a 10 string guitar. The 5th & 6th strings has the longest (Dead String) in the key head. That is a long pull on a .022 wound 6th string.
When I started playing a MSA S10 Classic about 2000 a steel player , Who had more experience playing steel. Told me I should put a wound 6th string on it. I mentioned changing to another steel player, I got my strings from. He told me that because of the 12 string key head used on the MSA. (12 string key head with only 10 keys. Extra 1" of dead string in key head.) A wound string would not work.
With your 25" scale, And dead string in key head, It just may be too much string, To pull to G#.
Could take some serious work to make a .022 6th wound string to work.

Good Luck and Happy Steelin.

[Donny Hinson]

...When I started playing a MSA S10 Classic about 2000 a steel player , Who had more experience playing steel. Told me I should put a wound 6th string on it. I mentioned changing to another steel player, I got my strings from. He told me that because of the 12 string key head used on the MSA. (12 string key head with only 10 keys. Extra 1" of dead string in key head.) A wound string would not work.

The full-tone lower for the 2nd and 6th strings on the older MSA guitars can be accomplished, but you will probably need a lighter return spring to do it. The older MSA guitars didn't have adjustable return springs, and stretching the stock springs is sometimes unreliable. If the raise finger moves when you are lowering, and you are not overtuned, the only ways to get more lowering capability is to go to a lighter spring, or increase the string gauge. Increasing the lever travel usually won't work because it doesn't address the issue of the moving raise finger, which is caused by the spring and string tension, and the changer geometry.