plastic washer in Carter changer

[Jim Hankins]

Hi Forumites, anybody framiliar with plastic washers in the changer, or have one come out of the changer? This appears to have happened to my 2003 carter U12. The "ring " just came out of the top of the guitar out of the blue,and coincidentally I am having a problem with the string 8 e - eb lever returning to pitch. The washer may have come out of that area. I have trouble shot overtuning the nylon nut, any other noticable mechanical issues,lubrication, string ball stuck in changer, etc. thanks Jim

[Bobby D. Jones]

That is a "OH BOY, WHAT A REVOLTING DEVELOPMENT THIS IS".

Where is the missing piece of of the washer?
Would it be possible to contact the previous owner and discuss this problem with them?

Check the 2 straight edges on the piece that came out. Are they jagged like the washer broke. Are the they smooth like they were cut. I wonder if a washer came out of the changer, And someone cut this washer so it would snap in place over the shaft.

From your picture, I would loosen the strings on the guitar and take the pressure off the changer fingers. ( Start with the section where strings 7-8-9 attach on the changer. ) See if you can move the fingers with a piece of plastic or wood between the support bars and find exactly where There is a little free space, Where the washer has came from. If you find the space it came from you may be able to snap it back in place for another 5 years.

If the edges are jagged.
Turn the guitar over on a padded area and look at the bottom of the changer. Use a light, It may be hard to see if there is return springs on the bottom of the changer. If you can see the missing piece, You may be able to remove it with a set of needle nose pliers or tweezers.

It will take a lot skill and work to remove the changer if that is the only cure for the problem.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Good Luck in this project.

[Jim Hankins]

Thanks Bobby quite REVOLTING ! Great idea! I will do that. The "washer " appeared out of the blue, protruding about half way, or more coming out the top of the changer. Your hunch is spot on that that chunk of it is still in the changer. It took some tugging to pull it out.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Hi Jim, Just checking in. I see you found the problem and got the broken piece out.
Did that cure the tuning problem?
Did any of the fingers move our of line, When the broken piece was removed?

[Bobby D. Jones]

I double clicked submit

[Doug Earnest]

It may well be that a piece was snipped out of the washer in order to be able to install it as a spacer in some part of the guitar that was already assembled.

It looks like a small diameter to be a changer axle washer but I don't know what a Carter uses.

[Danny Letz]

That looks more like the kind of washer that would adjust the end play on cross shafts.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

That looks more like the kind of washer that would adjust the end play on cross shafts.

Jim & I discussed this problem in a different thread (and I suggested that he should start his own here). Yes, cut washers like this were used in Carters on the rear apron cross shafts.

I am having a hard time figuring how this could be on the changer axle, in between fingers, and then fall out but leave no visible gap on the changer. This is sort of baffling.

[Danny Letz]

I agree. Also it might be hard to tell if it came from a cross shaft because I've seen there be more than one on the end of a shaft depending on the gap to be taken up. Perhaps it did come from a cross shaft and the location in which he found it is just where it ended up after shaking around in the case? There's also at least a little possibility it might have been dropped in there during assembly. I found an acorn nut in the leg socket of one of my guitars 32 years after it was built.

[Jim Hankins]

Hi all, update: Just to clarify, I did not find a missing piece/chip of the washer. I thought it was plausable that there was a piece left in the changer because that is about how far the washer was sticking out when I pulled it out. Per Bobby, and Doug, I did take a close look at the washer. It DOES look like straight cuts. There very well may be no chunk in the guitar.

Inpsection: I looked top and bottom best I could without removing springs, with strings loosened, with flashlight and magnafying glass. I whiggled and pushed on the fingers. Unfortunatlely the changer was filthy, with actual clumps of dust in places! I poked and prodded and blew out and cleaned best I could. I could not though, ID the place where the washer came from. There appears to be no missing space. Cracks are tight, etc.

E lower returning problem: Related to the washer ? Unknown. After I retuned the guitar, including the P6 str 8 lower that works in conjunction with the E lower. The rod is directly above the rod for the E - Eb . The P 6 rod, did not appear to have any slack in it, per Jon`s overtuning tutorial. I corrected that. First the problem (str 8 not returning to tune) , seemed to still be there. Then, I continued to pluck string 8, look at the tuner while engaging and disengaging the E to Eb lever, and while pushing on, or wiggling the associated pull rod I appeared to start getting better readings on the tuner, at one point. I am not sure yet, but that left me a little optimistic.

Thanks to everyone for the help, sharing your knowlege , and great tips, Jim

[Doug Earnest]

As far as the tuning, it sounds like the changer might benefit from a good flush. You probably don't need to disassemble anything, just drizzle some naptha, lighter fluid, Goof Off or similar clean light solvent through the changer fingers a couple of times. Blow it out and give it a good oiling and new set of strings.

I got a nice guitar out of the closet recently that had not seen the light of day for ten years and it had gunked just from setting. It had never seen dirt. A good flush and some oil got it good as new.

[Jim Hankins]

thanks Doug, You appear right. After cleaning and lube every thing seems to be working better. I appreciate the input, Jim

[Allen Peterson]

Jim,

When I picked up my new Carter from the shop in 2000, it had the same problem, only the washer was orange. Bud said it was a spacer used in setting up the changer. About half the washer was sticking up above the changer. Bud pulled it out of the changer with some needle-nosed pliers. It looked exactly like the one in your picture.

Allen Peterson

[Mike Vallandigham]

In the event you want to clean the changer, it's not hard to do.

You don't even have to take the rods out of the bell cranks.

[Jim Hankins]

Thanks Mike. I blew the changer out from the bottom, carefully used q tips to clean out dust on the fingers with magnafying glass. I then sprayed boeshield T-9 which nicely had one of those long straws so I could get in there and spray each finger. Im liking the way it is playing now.

I would like to hear how you (or other forumites) do it, Jim

[Bill Ford]

FWIW...If/when you decide to clean by flushing with any kind of fluid, I would remove the strings, and tape the surrounding area to keep the solvent off the finish and parts that you don't want damaged.

[Jim Hankins]

Good to know Bill, thanks, I see you are a fellow S12 player.

[Frank Stewart]

Hello all, this is my first time posting here, so I'm unsure if it's preferable to make a new thread rather than bump one from a couple years ago, but this thread is the most I've seen these plastic washers talked about. I recently took apart the changer on my Carter S10 and only found 5 of these washers. This post, viewtopic.php?p=2923980#p2923980 leads me to believe that there should be 6. I did not make note of the order they were placed in the bridge of my guitar, unfortunately, but I do remember having to pull two of them apart., and I do suspect my changer to have been previously disassembled.

Based on this information, should I try to find some way to acquire another one of these washers, or just reassemble with the 5 I have and see what happens? I've looked for a replacement that I could try to cut a slot in to match the others, but I can't seem to find anything thin enough. I don't particularly understand the function of these, so I'm unsure if I'm overthinking it. Perhaps I am meant to reassemble the changer without them and insert them as needed? I also have a Magnum guitar that appears to have similar washers in the changer that I hope to disassemble soon, so it would be very helpful for me to better understand the function of and possibly be able to source these.

[Wayne Brown]

I just found this thread as I was checking out the forum today. In reference to the old thread ... there was no chip out of the washers. This is the way Bud made them so they could be installed while the changer was in place. you will also find that the cross shafts have this same but smaller version of this washer with a piece missing. This way shimming can be adjusted when needed.
As for the changer washers i have seen some with 3 all the way up to 7. They were installed where the changer had friction or the fingers needed a little more space to take up some changer play.
I hope the helps
Thanks
wayne
c/o
Outwest Music